A troubling issue i would like to raise

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  BrianSaysRelax 7 months, 1 week ago.

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A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27121

After almost three years to the day since i joined this rag tag group of Monkeys i have a troubling issue i would like to raise. Monkey-Gamers has some very likeable characters and I have made some good friends within the community in my time here, however this can not be said for all.

A member was recently ‘removed’ for what I gather was racism, however we seem to have a deep routed sense of acceptance for the practice when it is aimed at a particular group of people.

Here are just a few snippets from various discord conversations over a relatively short period of time (I have of course omitted the OP as there is no reason to include it) :-

Battlefield 1 has two things I hate: Brits and Muslims

He had help from British Hackerbots. We should have cut off the internet cables when we had the chance, now that the 29th has passed

but knowing british ppl
we knew it was a shit place
there’s still bombed out buildings from ww2, thanks for that
give it a few years
we might try again
scotland is safe

#getfuckedengland

my suggestion was strap a lot of boat engines to the island and ship it over to trumpland
they have a new england, maybe they want an old new england

These are just a small selection of the comments and I thought maybe this was a short term vent due to political events, however it has continued for many many months with no interjection for anyone in the MG hierarchy to stop it. As a community, accepting this kind of behaviour and allowing it to continue is rather worrying. If for example all the references to English/Brits were replaced with an ethnic minority group would that be allowed to continue….i assume not, personally I struggle to see the difference. What also concerns me greatly is that a lot of these kind of comments come from people who sit under the Admins Flag, so not only is the culture condoned, its encouraged.

I would like to stress that I do realise that a large portion of the community does not contribute to this barrage of racism, and I do not consider anyone guilty by affiliation.

I altered this post as I was typing as it originally started with my resignation from the community, however i would love for this not to be the case and to see if we can resolve the issue first.

As a final note :- Am I being a little over sensitive…maybe so, this is after all ‘the internet’ and i’m sure some comments fall under the category of ‘a joke’ but a good proportion do not. Joining discord most days to see another volley of abuse aimed at a group of people to which i belong is not something i personally wish to continue seeing.

Peace!

Crit

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Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27122

good point at all!
I see myself within this group of people poking and joking about others, not race related but country/age/ect. related.
So, I don’t know, perhaps it has become some kind of a habit not thinking anymore about the fact that I could hurt somebodies feeling or just annoy him/her.
On the other hand it’s hard to tell at what point it changes from “just a joke” to “something more” and it depends to who it is adressed, some can deal with more some with less “jokeness” 😉

I am some kind of person who needs clear signals, because I’m not good in reading people, especially when it’s only a chat on discord.
But it’s the same in real life :-/
And it’s real people on the other side of the line!
So this is for me personally a sign to care and overthink more the stuff I will write down!

Greetings!
Le Fett

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#27123

I think you are taking the comments out of context here. Let me say this first, that I take your post seriously, and I backtracked the conversations now.

Some of them are with Ryro, who is actually british (!?)

Problem here is, if we take this too seriously, then we cannot have banter between the nations.

Look at it this way: How many comments are there about the french people and how they always retreat or some other stuff on MG discord? Just try and search for “french”. This is hilarious stuff for Brits and other nationalities to use, and most french people can see the joke in it, at least our frenchies.

This is actually quite hilarious, just search for different nationalities on MG Discord and see all the comments. So many could be seen as “racism” in some degree, but it’s not. Just friendly banter.

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Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27124

My take, going from memory and searching the discord server for “brexit”, “england” and “britain”:

I can’t quite see it. I probably wrote more hate speech towards Denmark (fuck denmark) the last 2-3 years than what I can dig up or remember there being about England.

A handful of the quotes you mention are from the world cup, some is from a conversation between a german and a (remainer) brit.

Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27125

Hey there (:
First of all, the kicked user was not banned for racism.

I do understand your point and I’m very sorry that you don’t feel comfortable on our discord anymore.
I gotta admit tho, that I don’t agree with everything. I looked up the passages you quoted and tried to read them in their context. For the majority of the people who wrote this above I’d vouch for them that they don’t mean it in a bad/racist way.
MG is a large community and ofc you can’t be close with everyone, some people you might have never spoke to even. Some people have been in this group for … more than 10 years? Often discussions in the general chat form between a small group of people, and they kinda behave like a private chat – forgetting that uninvolved people can read them as well. But to some point, I think that is okay – otherwise the discord would be pretty empty.

But may I be honest with you? From my point of view, most of the things written above don’t classify as racism for me, especially if you read them in context and know the people they come from. In my oppinion you might take it a little bit to personal.
It’s quite a tightrope walk to try to find the border between racism – banter/jokes. I always try to see the person behind the message, it helps me to classify the tone of the comment (if that makes any sense, my english is not on point :D). However, we take racism seriously – people got kicked from MG for being racist.

Greetings,
Helene

(apparently I’m a very slow writer, so many other people answered before me :D)

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Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27126

Hey Crit!
First off all I think it is good that you voice these concerns. Talking about problems is always a good idea.
However, in this case I agree with you last sentence. You are overreacting. A lot of these comments are taken out of context, stem from Brits themselves or simply lack the face to face contact. You get a better impression of us by talking to us. Unfortunately, it has been a while since I last talked to you, so I have no hard feeling about you not getting my sarkasm with the “Hackerbots”. We were playing Secret Hitler. That game spurs the imagination. But in almost all of the cases I think no one has “hateful” feelings towards the Brits.

Secondly, a fundamental part of an open society with democratic values is satire. And, I gotta say, the British are at the focus of a lot of satire. And in my opinion deservedly so. Brexit is a shitshow. Nothing is prepared. You may have to deal with food shortages, and yady yady yada…
You know probably better then I do. Listening to this day in and out must be frustrating. Today I was in a meeting with a woman who will be out of a job by the 12th because her passport won’t be valid anymore. Still, she holeheartidly joked about it. Isn’t that the famous british humor that we stanky old, no-fun Germans always hear about?

Alright, I’m running long. I don’t believe there is a hate-speech problem against the British race. With Brexit, your government just painted a bright red target onto you. Satire naturally follows.

Of course you may see this differently. That’s the beauty of a free opionion. We should be careful not to loose that beauty.

Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27129

Hi Crit,

disclaimer first, i haven’t read the quoted discussions but i trust the others in their judgement.

I have to talk a bit in defense of the community. Monkey-Gamers is an international community – always has been as far as I know. I don’t think this does attract nationalists/racists very much. I am surely not the only one who enjoys that.

There is plenty of banter and this will sooner or later include some comments on nations which is ok if the people having the banter are ok with it. (It is not anything i would do that is besides the point.)
I don’t think anybody intends it (the banter) in a harmful way. Nevertheless it may seem extreme if taken out of context and/or not knowing the people. It is good to have a critical voice that calls attention if things get out of hand.

The rest has been addressed by the wise members already.

Love <3

Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27130

“my suggestion was strap a lot of boat engines to the island and ship it over to trumpland
they have a new england, maybe they want an old new england”

I’m so relieved one of my comments made it. Finally some recognition as an asshole. I made it.

I am joking all the time about stereotypes and in general i treat the internet as a place that is not for the faint of heart.
Ill gladly double down on any joke and i say the naughty words because they are silly jokes and i am trying to be edgy and funny.

I don’t think Pinking was “leaved” for racism.

That all said, i appreciate you coming forward to question our behavior and uttering your concern. In the future the problem of consistency will be adressed by me personally by hating on all shades of skin color aswell as all nationalities and religions. It might get ranty, but hey, fairs fair. If your feelings are hurt by my words you can tell me, i might be sensible to your request. Or i might ask you for WHEN YOU FINALLY WILL GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE EU.

I hope all of you eat shit and die, and maybe have a pleasant evening.

THIS POST CONTAINS IRONY

*A LOT OF

Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27132

Brian – sensitive as usual. 😀

Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27141

honestly crit, you should just come play with us more often, i hardly ever see you around and you would know that its all just banter and good fun.

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#27149

Maybe I’m being weird, but I kinda expected a reply @crit , instead of this thread being left to hang like a fart in an elevator.

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#27150

Same here, but he did overreacted about chatting in discord..

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Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27151

Apologies @schnooody i was taking some time to consider my options as well as my reply. I sometimes have a disturbing habit of rushing into a reply and using emotion to formulate it usually resulting in regret later down the line 😀

Everybody reply runs along the same lines so I do not feel there is any need respond to any specific one individually.

What i will say is that at 34 years of age and with over 20 years of online gaming experience i have never encountered a large community where this kind of behaviour is accepted. Yes it has been explained as ‘banter between the nations’ but i have engaged in these ‘jokes’ over the years and agree that can be very amusing however what I see in discord form a personal view goes beyond this. For example nobody addressed the following comment :-

Battlefield 1 has two things I hate: Brits and Muslims

Whereas most of the others were commented on directly by various people, this one was not. Why? As its pure racism (towards two races i might add) and there is no defence for it.

Online gaming and the internet has changed a lot in 20 years and what was once a relatively small groups of people chatting via IRC had developed into a forum where a huge amount of people are gathered together. MG discord regularly had over 100-150 people online and as it has been said it is impossible to know everyone. So if it is banter or not maybe the general chat section of discord is not the place to voice these ‘jokes’

Discord is a great place, it has various options to communicate. Public general rooms, private calls, voice communication etc… Maybe keep the verbal bashing of specific nations to a more private location?

If i was playing BF5 with a group of MGs and had a bit of a nightmare which resulted someone saying “god damn Englishman messing it up again” to the squad…would i be annoyed or offended, absolutely not. The squad i would be playing with would be ‘friends’ or people i chose to play with and i would instantly know it was meant in good humour and would probably reply with a similar comment of my own. If i see this comment made on a general text channel by someone i don’t really know is it possible i might take this out of context, most certainly, as once again it is impossible to know everyone.

The largest community i was ever involved in was Wireplay who’s members later migrated to Blueyonder when Wireplay closed. This was a massive community back when IRC was the medium of communication. If the comments made here were placed there, the Community Leaders (the name for them back in the day) would have made the Q bot ban list rather long indeed.

I will respond to one comment however and that’s the ‘come and play with us more often and i will see its all banter and good fun’ . Maybe i don’t want too, maybe i want to play with some of the other members playing other games, or maybe i want a month long break from gaming and just wish to ‘be in’ Discord. Whatever i wish to participate in within the community i would have just liked to have done it without seeing this repeated garbage plastered all over the general channel by the same small group of members. I am usually on discord 6 out of 7 days a week and there is usually some reference during the week at some point.

For now though i will leave my reply at that.

Peace!

Crit

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Reply To: A troubling issue i would like to raise

#27152

Hey again!

I think we have made some progress here. Out of 11 quotes you listed in the OP, we were able to dismiss 10. That’s a 90 % false-positve rate we have discovered :).

To address THAT comment: You are right, that one crosses the line. If it is a joke it is of bad taste; if it is serious, then it is plain idiotic. But it is ONE case. It’s just not right taking a huge action (aka ban on sight) for something that is (in my eyes) not at all a regular occurence.

In that sense, let’s learn from the current political events. Just critizing something without delivering a plan of action is a job only half done. And a job half done is a job not done at all. So I wonder what you suggest we do?

Anyway, even if you don’t want to properly get to know the 20 people that actually read our Discord, the possibility is always there.

Toby

PS: And a little thing: The Brits are not a race ;). I think that definition caused some people to easily dismiss your claims.

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#27153

Muslims are not either, they come with all colors and nationalities.

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